Bicycles and Pedestrians

[Ocklawaha]

Well we here in the good old USA have such a smug attitude about our own greatness that I couldn't resist this photo.

For months now JACKSONVILLE has been struggling with sidewalks and bike lanes or trails - or the lack thereof. I know this having sat in on several planning meetings that deal with the subject. We don't even have an agreement on how to do it, or what a bikeway should look like. So with a sly grin on my face, meet a VERY TYPICAL street scene in Bogota, Colombia!

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/37/98363636_230e6497b2_o.jpg
Bogota Neighborhood

http://bogotablogger.com/wp-content/uploads/bike-lane-on-carrera-once.jpg
Downtown Bogota


http://www.onestreet.org/images/Ciclovia400.jpg
Ciclovia Event in Medellin = Bike Sunday on the Streets!

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2073/2429339790_c4a73761a7.jpg
Middle of NO-WHERE, Near the Atlantic Coast

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/88/273624917_48305a05c9.jpg?v=0
Anywhere Colombia, very late at night

Comments anyone?

Ocklawaha
Monster of Mobility!:biggrin:

[mama_wolf]

If we had anything close to that, I would be happy to buy a bike and ride it just about everywhere except work (I don't think they will modify the matthews bridge with a bike lane).

[Dog Walker]

Yeah! Take a look at that "third world developing" country and compare it with our city. Who is the more modern and livable?

Take a closer look at Ocks pictures. Notice something missing? Where's the trash? Compare a Jacksonville street.

[jbm32206]

Agreed, that it's not likely that they'll change most of the bridges to accommodate bike lanes. I also find it disgraceful that this city lacks bike lanes, downtown and pretty much everywhere else.

I was in Ireland this past summer, and Dublin has bike lanes everywhere, which puts this city to shame

[downtownparks]

As someone who had ridden thier bike to work, I can say this city isnt prepared for its denizens to ride bikes as a regular form of transportation.

First, I was very fortunate that I have all back roads, but going through downtown for lunch hour, or just to go to the river walk is always an adventure. Generally speaking, the drivers are jerks, the streets have no access for bikers, and people gawk. Its very frustrating.

[jbm32206]

Couldn't agree with you more! I'd love to be able to ride my bike to work, it's only about 8 miles...but without bike lanes, I'd be taking my life into my hands riding along Beaver street.

[Bike Jax]

We could have those those type bike paths. But unfortunately our MPO would much rather spend what little funds that are available to build paths along A1A, between Micklers Landing and the Vilano Bridge. A stretch of road that contains very usable bike lines, but contains no schools, no shopping and the only work along that section is for the landscaper and house cleaners of the wealthy beach front dwellers.

If you are interested in seeing what bike path are being planned for by 2035 and in what priority that they are listed in, you can follow this link to Bike Jax. About midway down are pictures of the listed paths. Don't expect anything to help you get around the city until well after you too damn old to throw a leg over a bike.

http://bikejax.blogspot.com/2008/09/mpo-bicycle-pedestrian-workshop-recap.html

Please also make plans to join us on Oct. 11th for The Night Ride. A first and only of its kind all day bike festival for all who ride bikes in Jacksonville.
www.thenightride.blogspot.com

[ufalumni]

I think its a matter of the order in which a mode of transportation was available. We've had cars in this country for over 80 years. You can live in "poverty" in this country and still make enough money to buy a car. With cars so readily available, the city was designed around the car and not the bike, so everything is spread out and bike lanes do not exist. Bike lanes in this city would sit empty.

The more important question is.. did the kids wear bike helmets?

[mama_wolf]

Notice the pictures...no helmuts...with decent bike lanes where bikes and cars are not competing for space, helmuts are not necessary.

[Claude91098]

Notice the pictures...no helmuts...with decent bike lanes where bikes and cars are not competing for space, helmuts are not necessary.

GOOD GOD!!! You two are going to get Dave all riled up now!!! (LOL)

[mama_wolf]

GOOD GOD!!! You two are going to get Dave all riled up now!!! (LOL)

:scared::scared::scared::scared:

[Ocklawaha]

PS: YES MANY WEAR HELMETS AND MOST ALL KIDS DO. SCHOOL RULES ARE STRICT AND UNIFORMED, BTW, 8TH GRADE = USA HIGH SCHOOL, AND COLOMBIAN HIGH SCHOOL = USA AA DEGREE. So when you hear those poor people with only 8th or 9th grade education, well.... go figure!


Yeah! Take a look at that "third world developing" country and compare it with our city. Who is the more modern and livable?

Take a closer look at Ocks pictures. Notice something missing? Where's the trash? Compare a Jacksonville street.


This is one of the strange things to me when we refer to COLOMBIA as 3rd world or Bananna Republic. The economy appears much stronger per capita then our own, everyone works at something. Everything is cutting edge, state of the art. Buildings, streets, transit, bikes and cars all top notch. The Military too, very cool and VERY PROFESSIONAL. I got a phone call that some relative was in distress at her home, so we called the police 1-2-3, and met the SWAT team at her house. I watched as they made 3 entrys in a matter of seconds through steel doors and concrete tile roof. The back door, a hole in the roof, and the front door. BOOM-BOOM-BOOM over. Nobody got hurt and the good guys won. I wish I could drag our whole planning and Bike leigon down for a weeks tour of this unknown paradise. Here's some non bike views of urban or the unknown Colombia.

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3139/2552760464_76f3027a48.jpg?v=0
Downtown Medellin, City of Eternal Spring. 72 degrees - ZERO insects

http://www.ddg-usa.com/Projects/Atlantis_Plaza/A.jpg
Atlantis Plaza Bogota, zero insects - 68 degrees

http://www.hoteldonjaime.com.co/wp-content/hotel-don-jaime-esta-ubicado-en-la-avenida-sexta-de-la-ciudad-de-cali-colombia.jpg
Cali, City of Beautiful Women - 88 degrees

http://drake.marin.k12.ca.us/students/hernandezma/Images/colombia-viva.jpeg
Cartagena - St. Augustine on steriods HOT

http://www.elpais.com/recorte/20070426elpepuint_23/LCO340/Ies/Centenares_vehiculos_quedaron_atrapados_hoy_largos _atascos_varias_ciudades_Colombia_apagon_ha.jpg
Someone said they can do bikes because they have no cars? HUH?

http://www.trendeoccidente.com/imagenes/fotos/galeria/g_53.jpg
OOPS must have hit the wrong key. FYI - OCKS BEEN HERE!

http://www.defenselink.mil/home/images/photos/2005-04/photoessays/pi20050412b1.jpg
American Made is 10 feet tall, they LOVE US!

http://www.mapsociety.net/images/Articles/EAF/07.jpg
3rd largest Latin Economy, 24% of all food imported to the USA originates in Colombia. The mouse the roars? That would be muscle from Israel over our heads.

http://s3.amazonaws.com/elespectador/files/images/a3a57805237c9e2d5ee6cdff25cdac79.jpg
This one is for you JBM, the local police on parade!

THIS LITTLE TOUR:

Hope this puts the bikeways in prospective for those who haven't had the chance for these great adventures.

OCKLAWAHA

[Claude91098]

Hey Bob! When you have TRILLIONS in drug money to spend, only the BEST will do!
LOL

Perhaps the USA should start it's on illicit drug industry sanctioned, (openly or not), by the government! Our deficit would dissappear in a couple of months! (LOL)

[Uh Duh]

Hey Bob! When you have TRILLIONS in drug money to spend, only the BEST will do!
LOL

Perhaps the USA should start it's on illicit drug industry sanctioned, (openly or not), by the government! Our deficit would disappear in a couple of months! (LOL)

Open Government Drug Stores. You can buy the product once you have provided fingerprints and DNA. That will clear up a lot of crimes. Offer top shelf stuff, this way the junkies can OD quickly and be of the rolls of the living. Take the money out of drugs and the violence will follow.

But back to bikes in the Duval. Many drivers seem to enjoy passing bikes, errh make that running them off the road. If I rode a bike to work I would wear a helmet and body armor.

[Claude91098]

UD, I believe that it's a case of bicyclist believing that the "invisible 3 foot rule" is a 100% protection. It isn't.
If a car is coming in the opposite direction and the driver of the other car that has a bicycle on his right, (or in his lane), has to make a choice:
#1.- Slow down and damned near STOP...or
#2.- Move over to the left, crossing the centerline, and risk a HEAD ON with a car/truck..or
#3.- Drive as close as possible to the bicycle to avoid oncoming traffic.

Now, most bicyclist will quickly point out that #1. is REQUIRED BY LAW. True.
However, the LAW also states that the operator of ANY vehicle on the roadways, (bicycles ARE vehicles bound by ALL motor vehicle laws), that is "impeding the flow of traffic" MUST exit the roadway and allow traffic to pass. (Bicyclist love to ignore THAT part of the code ya know.)
SO, GREAT! The bicyclist has the "technical" right of way. I hope that is a consolation to he/she or their families when they visit them in the ICU or attend their FUNERAL!
A motorist is sent to jail. Life, family...over.
A bicyclist is maimed for life or DEAD..life, family over.
I think that is too high a price to pay to be a bicyclist and harp that I have the "high road".

Bicycle Vs car = Car wins...always!
Who REALLY "wins"??? NO ONE!

[Ocklawaha]

http://cache.daylife.com/imageserve/03jV7oW9bw0cu/610x.jpg

Claude, I know you and I are friends, but that's a VERY TOUCHY area with myself and perhaps JBM on here. THIS IS THE REALITY OF THE DRUG WAR. "The Weekly" a Colombian news magazine similar to Newsweek, answered the US media in a special issue while I was there. It simply said "YES THEY HAVE A FACE!"
The entire magazine was done in high school photo album style, with thousands of faces of dead police men and women who made the sacrafice not only for the Republic of Colombia, but for yours and my children, and our childrens children. I WOULD LAY MY LIFE DOWN for Colombia without a thought. I love her and her people, and they have suffered enough without our Yankee snobbery. We'd all do well to remember there would be no push - without the American $$ pull.

Even went to a university where they gave each of us a mouth full of coca leaf to chew. To our amazement it does NOTHING! It's not until the Yankee dollar mixes it with LIME that it becomes a lethal drug. The leaf looks and tastes like our regular water oak (going on childhood memory of eating leafs). But powdered with lime it is a highly toxic drug, not until.

As for the Government, the President is my cousin, I can tell you from the inside, it's as clean or cleaner then our own! I too have shed these bitter tears.

Drugs? Easy? Let me tell you, you can't get a single Lortab 5, without a 15 part form, to the Colombian DEA, and a 5 month wait!

B A C K - T O - B I K E S

The Colombian system, of moving the bike lanes free of the highway is a great idea. I brought it up at a planning meeting last week in JAX. In worse case, they move the bike lane far up on a wide walk area, or lay in an extra curb - BETWEEN the bikes and the traffic. We could learn a lot from this.

OCKLAWAHA

[Diane Melendez]

Yes indeed, back to bikes. I think this idea would be wonderful for some areas in Jacksonville. Biking as transportation as well as exercise and leisure is a very timely idea for our community. I like it Ock!

[jbm32206]

Hey Bob! When you have TRILLIONS in drug money to spend, only the BEST will do!
LOL

Perhaps the USA should start it's on illicit drug industry sanctioned, (openly or not), by the government! Our deficit would dissappear in a couple of months! (LOL) There's actually a great deal more to Columbia than the drugs and thugs....and there's some damn good people there, including the police; of which have been killed left and right.

Oh and Bob....love that photo

[Dog Walker]

Unfortunately the government of Columbia doesn't get the billions in US dollars that come in as a result of the drug trade. They have to SPEND billions to try to control the crime that comes from that illegal trade. If it were legal, THEN they could tax it and make billions.

IMHO making drugs illegal creates far worse problems than would result from controlled legalization as we have done with alcohol and tobacco.

Bob, your comments by photos are brilliant!

[jbm32206]

I've pretty much always felt the illegal drugs should be legalized....then it could be better controlled...like Dog Walker has pointed out.

[Claude91098]

Ok Bob, I apologise if I offended your sensitivities about Columbia and drugs. It was a fecious remark on my part...chalk it up to bad humor if you will. Friends still? :-)

Jacksonville was designed and built around motor vehicular traffic needs and concerns.
It is a city with "bedroom" communities that work here, for the most part.

It would take more space than is currently available in the right of ways for Jax to start dedicated bike ways. IN the historic districts, it would probably mean destroying some of the "history" to make way for the future and there are just too many people that wouldn't stand for that right now.

"Green" has just become the focus of some people, mostly city dwellers whom would benefit from it the most. However, I don't believe that much of the suggestions could be incorporated without MAJOR changes and MAJOR $$$ to make those changes for a relatively few constant users. Kinda like the "bridge to no where" mentality at COJ I think.

[Ocklawaha]

Claude, I knew what you ment, remember we grew up in the same swamps. No harm done. FREINDS!

What I did want to stop cold was the usual media fed feeding fest on Colombia as some sort of illegal rogue state of drug crazed nuts. Let me just tell everyone. I'd rather walk through ALL of Medellin at 2 AM with my 250 pound 6' gringo head sticking up above EVERYONE. Then to walk 6 blocks in downtown Jax (you name the blocks) at the same hour!

I'd bet in Colombia, within 2 minutes I'd have a policeman trot up to help the tourista get where he was going, and walking with me, 3 or 4 John Q Jose's would join us to make sure I didn't miss this coffee shop, or that cake place, or this fountain or that etc...

THAT IS THE COLOMBIA I KNOW

THE COLOMBIA THAT STOLE MY HEART

THE COLOMBIA that will always be my home too.

Did you know at Wyatt Earps funeral, Jacksonville actor and friend Tom Mix, broke down and wept? Did you know on the evening that Israel delivered our first 40 KFir fighter bombers, we watched from a mountain side 19 floor condo balcony and we all wept with joy! The pride was ELECTRIC!

OCKLAWAHA (Scot-Confederate and Gringo to the core - Colombian by the grace of God)

[Bike Jax]

UD, I believe that it's a case of bicyclist believing that the "invisible 3 foot rule" is a 100% protection. It isn't.
If a car is coming in the opposite direction and the driver of the other car that has a bicycle on his right, (or in his lane), has to make a choice:
#1.- Slow down and damned near STOP...or
#2.- Move over to the left, crossing the centerline, and risk a HEAD ON with a car/truck..or
#3.- Drive as close as possible to the bicycle to avoid oncoming traffic.

Now, most bicyclist will quickly point out that #1. is REQUIRED BY LAW. True.
However, the LAW also states that the operator of ANY vehicle on the roadways, (bicycles ARE vehicles bound by ALL motor vehicle laws), that is "impeding the flow of traffic" MUST exit the roadway and allow traffic to pass. (Bicyclist love to ignore THAT part of the code ya know.)
SO, GREAT! The bicyclist has the "technical" right of way. I hope that is a consolation to he/she or their families when they visit them in the ICU or attend their FUNERAL!
A motorist is sent to jail. Life, family...over.
A bicyclist is maimed for life or DEAD..life, family over.
I think that is too high a price to pay to be a bicyclist and harp that I have the "high road".

Bicycle Vs car = Car wins...always!
Who REALLY "wins"??? NO ONE!

Let's throw some number at you and you tell if you think it's still too dangerous to ride a bike in Jacksonville.

According the last census numbers released (2006) Jacksonville had 1% daily bike commuters. Which doesn't count the working poor or those of a foreign nation. So if we take 1% of Jacksonville's population of 800,000, we get about 8000 daily commuters.

They do 2 trips days. One from home to work and one work to home. That's 16,000 trips a day. If you multiply that by 240 days year (20 work days a month) you get 3,840,000 bike trips a year.

Then you add in all the recreational cyclists that total in the thousands. They do at least 3 rides a week. While I can't confirm these numbers, But I'm guessing they would total close to if not well over a million bike trips a year.

That would give you just under five million yearly bike related trips.

Jacksonville has an average of 4 bicycle fatalities a year.

Now, really look at those numbers. 4,384,000 vs 4

Now while even one death is way too many. The streets are not as dangerous as the media would have you believe.

[Uh Duh]

Bad news, Bike Jax 1% is 8,000. Good news multiply the positive impact by 10.

[dv8]

http://localmotion.org/ some city governments in the US support alternative transportation.