Pissed off with my own party.

[Screamin Eagle]

I was in the middle of sharpening my pencil and up to my ears in tax forms when the phone rang. It was a caller from the DNC. Normally, I would be quite accomodating to such and offer some conversation. However, I am quite angry with my own party at the moment.

Why?

Just ask Howard Dean. It seems he remains a stick in the arse about "punishing" Florida voters for something they 1.) Had nothing to do with and 2.) Had no control over. Indeed, I refer to our degegates being kicked out of the convention.

Florida has become an International joke for voteing. Recently in Scotland, We were on a tour and the guide sugguested we vote on which castle to visit. "ACH! Be there anyone here from Florida?" My wife and I raised our hands. "Allow me to explain the concept of voteing to these folk" The bus roared. I however was not amused.

Anyway, back to the DNC caller. She was begging for more money, which I have supplied in some quantities over the past 4 years. Can you give us another thousand Mr. Eagle? "But," sez I, "I gave $5000.00 last year, and don't have a vote in the primary. If I give anymore, won't they take away my vote in the General? I ended up sending $25.00 insted of a thousand.

When I got back to my taxes, I found it wasn't deductable anyway.

I wonder if that stick will bloom in the spring? :paper:

[Jimmy]

I don't blame you AT ALL. In fact, I think you should follow it up with a personal note to Howard Dean explaining it. It's unbelievable that the DNC would fall into the trap set for it by the Florida Republican Legislature. But they have.

[spidey]

Hey SE!

It's good to see you online....

[rpschutt]

Well, things can change....

With Mrs. Clinton struggling after her losses this weekend and tonight, expect her to increase her push to count the Florida and Michigan delegates, something she promised New Hampshire voters she would not do.

In Michigan, all of the major candidates removed their names from the ballot as requested by the party, with the exception of Mrs. Clinton. She won 55% of the vote, with 40% going to Uncommitted, 4% going to Dennis Kucinich and 1% to Chris Dodd. Obviously, awarding her delegates in this case certainly would not be fair to the other candidates who removed their names from the ballot as requested.

In Florida, the candidates were forbidden from campaigning, although Mrs. Clinton did fly in as voting ended for a rally (an event that was well publicized in the weekend before the voting). She won 55% of the vote, with 33% going to Obama and 14% to Edwards. Because all three names were on the ballot here, she could make a better case to win some delegates, but then that would mean Michigan voters would be treated differently that Florida voters.

IMHO, Howard Dean handled this quite horribly. He could have gone the route the GOP decided to take--stripping a portion of the delegates--instead of totally disenfranchising the entire state (while begging Florida voters for money).

[Screamin Eagle]

Hey Spidey,
I finally got all the bugs out of the 'puter. Back online and happy.
See ya around!

[Lewyn]

If you are so mad about what the state legislature did, take it out on them. As I recall, the bill to create an early primary was unanimous- the Ds voted for it as well as the Rs, thinking that they could get away with telling the national party to get stuffed.

I don't blame the national party; I blame the Florida Democrats, who as in 2000, seem to be making as much trouble for the national party as possible. (As you may recall, it was a Democratic elections commissioner who created Palm Beach County's infamous butterfly ballot- and it was Florida Democrat Janet Reno who killed off Gore in Dade County by sending heavily armed govt. employees to resolve the Elian Gonzalez affair!)

Frankly, after 2000 and 2008, I wonder if the nation wouldn't be well served to have Florida disenfranchised in EVERY election.

[Jimmy]

That wouldn't sound very good on a fundraising letter from the DNC. Which, by the way, is an organization that raises a lot of money in Florida.

If they don't want us, I say we dump our chads in the Tampa Bay and finally form that Banana Republic they're always accusing us of being. ;) Long live the Independent State of Florida!

[jbm32206]

I can appreciate your statement, but wouldn't want to see that happen. You're absolutely right, in the points that you've made...and yes, they shot themselves in the foot!

[CS Foltz]

I still have not figured out how in blue blazes Howard Dean managed to become head of the DNC.....he needs to go yell elsewhere!

[rpschutt]

Right on cue. From today's NYT:

Democrats’ Turmoil Tests Party’s Low-Key Leader

By ADAM NAGOURNEY
WASHINGTON — The turmoil in the Democratic presidential race has presented a sharp test of Howard Dean’s low-profile approach to leading the Democratic National Committee, bringing calls from many Democrats for him to take a more aggressive role in defusing the threat of a protracted and divisive nominating fight.

After months in which he was largely absent from public deliberations about how to avert a risk to the party’s hopes of taking the White House in November, Mr. Dean stepped forward last week to say he wanted the contest resolved by July 1 and for Senators Hillary Rodham Clinton and Barack Obama to tone down their attacks on each other.

Yet three years after he won election as the party chairman by running largely as an outsider, it is not clear that Mr. Dean has the political skills or the stature with the two campaigns to bring the nominating battle to a relatively quick and unifying conclusion.

Indeed, 24 hours after he made his remarks, Mrs. Clinton said she intended to keep fighting for the nomination through the summer, if necessary. It was an unmistakable rebuke to Mr. Dean, who has never had good relations with the Clintons.

In an interview, Mr. Dean said he was taking steps to pave the way to a smooth convention in Denver this summer, suggesting that he had had private conversations with both campaigns.

Mr. Dean and his aides said they were assembling resources — voter lists, political organizations and polling on vulnerabilities of Senator John McCain, the presumptive Republican nominee. Beyond that, Mr. Dean and other Democrats argued that with the party so divided — and in the midst of a fight between two outsized political figures — there were limits to what he could, or should, do.

“I’m making calls all the time to people,” he said. “I’ve spoken to a great number of leaders who are not aligned. The operative thing here is let the voters get to have their say before the Washington politicians have their say.”

Still, senior officials in both campaigns said they had heard rarely from Mr. Dean on matters like the tone of the contest and how it might be concluded and what to do about the Michigan and Florida delegates, the subject of a bitter and potentially debilitating debate between the Clinton and Obama campaigns.

The chairman of the Florida Democratic Party, Karen Thurman, said she could not recall the last time Mr. Dean had called her to try work out the dispute. She and other Florida Democrats are to meet with Mr. Dean on Wednesday to try to persuade him to agree to a compromise.

Some Democratic Party leaders, while offering sympathy for Mr. Dean’s plight, said it was urgent that he take a more assertive role to restore peace. Several suggested that Mr. Dean — who has sought to build a legacy by expanding party operations to all 50 states — risked having his tenure as party leader remembered for a traumatizing loss in a year where most Democrats think victory should be easy.

“I think he should be talking to governors and Al Gore and John Kerry,” said Donald Fowler, a former party chairman who supports Mrs. Clinton. “I think he should be convening almost daily conversations with people — including the campaigns — trying to reach a solution.”

“If I were a chair, I would be a little more public in what I was doing and suggesting,” Mr. Fowler said. “The D.N.C. chair rarely has an opportunity to do stuff, but this is one of those occasions.”

Gov. Phil Bredesen of Tennessee drew attention last month when he proposed a solution: Have the elected Democratic officials and party leaders known as superdelegates convene after the voting is done on June 3 to resolve the fight. Mr. Bredesen said he had acted in part because he saw no evidence that Mr. Dean or other leaders were trying to resolve the situation.

“What I try to do is when I see a problem to step up,” Mr. Bredesen said. “I think the party needs to take a hand in this thing.”

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/04/02/us/politics/02dems.html?_r=1&hp=&oref=slogin&pagewanted=print

[johnmeeks1974]

Ever since the primary calendar was rolled out, I have had a grievance with the DNC and the RNC over their blatant pandering to Iowa and New Hampshire.

It never made much sense to me for 'early' states to be able to pick and choose from the field of candidates and decide who the rest of us get to vote for.

One good thing about the Democrats' primary season is that more people are getting the opportunity to decide. That is all that Florida wanted - some relevance in the nomination race. I remember when I voted for John Edwards in the 2004 Florida primary - days after he dropped out in favor of John Kerry. And we all know how that turned out!

As for Howard Dean - he's a joke!

[jbm32206]

As a democrat, I'm disgusted with how things have worked out and with Howard Dean. Not to say that I'm even considering switching parties...but I'm very upset with how all of this has played out...including the ones in Florida that pushed to move the date, which resulted in our votes being worthless!

[johnmeeks1974]

Let's just say that I would not be surprised if I wake up in 2009 to see McCain being sworn into office. The Democrats seem to be eager to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory. And if they indeed lose the election, be ready to join the Whigs and Federalists in the Dead Party Hall of Fame...

[Diane Melendez]

It is still really early John. Alot can happen and most of us remember the way McCain and Romney were going at each other until Romney was unable to get enough votes to stay in. I also think people will forget the bickering of parties and be encompassed in the dual between the two final candidates. It's still a toss up and as much as the pundits like to claim that behavior or who said what each day is a predictor of the end of this race, no one knows. Not till the votes are in.

[Jimmy]

I found Obama's ploy today very interesting. Guaranteeing Gore a seat at his table. Wonder if that will force Gore from the sidelines?

[Diane Melendez]

I hadn't heard that. What an interesting development. Perhaps this is a way to reach out to Clinton Democrats, without actually including Hillary.

[rpschutt]

I don't think Al Gore falls into the "Clinton Democrat's" camp. ;) By all accounts, he was quite bitter with being forced to share the stage with her for eight years. To top it all off, he had to compete with her in 2000 for funding and the spotlight.

[Diane Melendez]

Hadn't thought about that RP. Meanwhile there is now discussion about some agreement to be introduced over the summer to put the Fla and Michigan back into the delegate count. Didn't get the details. Anyone heard what that is about?

[rpschutt]

I've read a little bit...it won't change the outcome.

[spidey]

Here's a link to an article on the St. Pete Times website about it...

http://blogs.tampabay.com/buzz/2008/04/democratic-lead.html

[Jimmy]

I continue to roil about this whole mess.

I know that what Florida and Michigan were trying to do was noble. But it's created a holy mess.

[Diane Melendez]

Thanks spidey. It all amounts to hot air. I mean, why would the Obama camp want to go along with that proposal?

[johnmeeks1974]

It bothers me that the party that professes to support 'diversity' is enabling tiny, monolithic states like Iowa and New Hampshire in putting their ego ahead of the national interest. An upside to this protracted primary season is that voters everywhere do get the chance to actually have a relevant voice in the nomination process. Another upside is that the eventual Democratic nominee will have been battle-tested for the general election. John Kerry's cakewalk in the primaries belied the thumping that we eventually got against George W. Bush...

[johnmeeks1974]

Democratic party chief agrees to seat Florida delegation
It's unclear how many delegates can go to convention or how they can vote

By Tamara Lytle
MCT
Published on: 04/03/08
WASHINGTON — Democratic National Committee Chairman Howard Dean said for the first time Wednesday that Florida's delegation will be seated at the party's presidential nominating convention in Denver and will even have some hotel rooms to sleep in.

What he didn't say was how many of the state's 211 delegates would be invited — and whom they'd be allowed to vote for.

After a morning meeting with a Florida delegation, including state party chair Karen Thurman, Dean said that many details still need to be worked out and approved by presidential candidates Hillary Clinton and Barack Obama.

But the Floridians said the chairman's promise to work to seat Florida's delegation was a breakthrough in the impasse that has left state Democrats wondering if they would be left out of the August convention.

"We are committed to do everything in our power to seat the Florida delegation," Dean said after his meeting with Florida's nine House Democrats, U.S. Sen. Bill Nelson and Thurman. It was a marked change of tone for Dean, who has been critical of Florida and Michigan — also stripped of its delegates — for breaking party rules by moving up their primaries.

The DNC took away all 211 of Florida's delegates. Clinton won the Jan. 29 primary by 17 percentage points and has pushed for using those results to allot the 185 delegates that were supposed to be awarded by the vote.

That would give her 38 more than Obama, with another 13 pledged to former candidate John Edwards. She currently trails Obama by about 150 delegates nationally.

By contrast, the Obama camp has proposed divvying the Florida delegates up evenly since the Jan. 29 vote was not legal under party rules.

The meeting with Dean comes after the state party rejected a proposal to re-do the primary with a mail-in ballot. Subsequent proposals by Nelson and others to allow seating of half the Florida delegation also have gone nowhere.

For his part, Dean didn't say how many delegates would be invited to Denver, or how they'd be divided up. Instead, a joint statement released by Dean and the Floridians said, "We all agree that whatever the solution, it must have the support of both campaigns."

Spokesmen for both campaigns reacted cautiously.

"You really have to take a look at the particulars," said Clinton spokesman Phil Singer. "The devil is always in the details."

Obama spokesman Robert Gibbs said Dean's statement was "consistent with what we'd like" but how to split up the delegates still needs to be worked out.

Florida lawmakers were upbeat. U.S. Rep. Ron Klein hailed "a breakthrough to have the chairman say he's going to do everything he can."

Debbie Wasserman Schultz, a Clinton supporter, said Dean's tone was much less combative than it had been. "He's finally realized it's counterproductive to our goal of electing the next president of the United States to continue to insist on punishing the state," she said.

The joint statement declared: "While there may be differences of opinion in how we get there, we are all committed to ensuring that Florida's delegation is seated in Denver."

Florida is the largest of the nation's swing states, and both parties will target it in the November election. A Quinnipiac University Poll released Wednesday showed Clinton would edge presumptive Republican nominee John McCain by 44 percent to 42 percent, if the race were held today. McCain would beat Obama 46 percent to 37 percent, according to the poll.

Clinton is ahead of Obama by 9 percentage points in the next large primary contest — Pennsylvania, according to the Quinnipiac Poll.

Wasserman Schultz said no Florida deal is likely to be hammered out until after that April 22 Pennsylvania vote. But in the meantime, Florida Democrats at least know they will have a place to sleep in Denver, according to Dean. Previously, the DNC has said there was no room at the inn for Florida.

"You would not believe the importance of having a hotel," said Rep. Corrine Brown, D-Fla.

[Jimmy]

This will begin to hurt...

(CNN) – A Democratic National Committee spokeswoman confirms to CNN that the party has returned $45,000 to three Florida donors unhappy with the continuing uncertainty over the seating of that state's delegation at the party's presidential nominating convention this summer.

The move follows reports that some major Democratic donors from Florida and Michigan — the two states penalized by the party for moving their presidential primary votes to January — would look to have their donations returned if full delegations were not seated at the convention in Denver, or new votes held that would abide by DNC rules.

This week, Howard Dean met with Florida's Democratic congressional delegation and party leaders, and released joint statements with that group and with the Michigan committee looking to craft a resolution of the controversy in that state. Democratic state party leaders in both Florida and Michigan have announced that new votes are not logistically possible.

[Claude91098]

Refunds ARE in order! Afterall, there will be no "services rendered" now! (LOL)

[CS Foltz]

DNC can put "proposal" where the sun don't shine...how can they talk about splitting up votes that were won fair and square by Ms Cliton....it seems to me that the Oboma campaign is stooping lower rather than forcing all to elevate! This does not brook well for the overall picture and if it continues I will have to "NOT VOTE" to register my displeasure!

[johnmeeks1974]

Money talks! I wonder if Iowa and New Hampshire have the kind of $$$ to compete with a state that really matters on Election Day...

[CS Foltz]

From the looks of it...not really sure that Florida will have a bearing on it or not! Last plan I heard of was that the votes were going to be split between Her and him! This is even though "she" won the state...but the DNC was going to penalize Florida for moving up their primary (Thanks Howard Dean!) Nothing had been worked out,since both he and she had to agree to whatever compromise was worked out....sounds like a bucket of chum to me but what do I know...I just voted and it won't count the way things are going!

[johnmeeks1974]

The only issue that I have with Hillary Rodham Clinton's reasoning is that the Democratic National Committee forced an embargo of anything remotely related to Florida Democrats. I attended the National Education Association convention in Philadelphia last year. The Democratic candidates for president spoke at the convention and even met with various caucus groups from each state. They, however, decided not to meet with the Florida Education Association caucus out of fear of being 'punished' by the DNC. That angered me because these same FEA members will be voting in November. Hillary Rodham Clinton managed to get into Florida on a technicality because she staged events that were 'fund-raisers' or closed to the public. She managed to win a state where no advertisements were aired and remember that commercials really do matter. Look what that 3AM ad did for Hillary Rodham Clinton in Texas. I, for one, was disgusted with how the DNC is playing stooge for early primary states that insist on being the kingmakers. And I predict that John McCain will be our next president because the Democrats cannot seem to get their shyte together...

[Screamin Eagle]

Well, I ain't giving asnother red cent until my vote gets counted. That may be never.

Not going so far as to demand a refund though. Because I still don't want another business-as-useual Republiar in office again.

S.E.

P.S. Why is HTML off?