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View Full Version : Live in a landmark: Residence plans for old school renewed


jbm32206
02-19-2008, 04:25 AM
Preservationists lament neglect; developers say plan is viable

By Charlie Patton, The Times-Union

In 1981, the decision by the Ida M. Stevens Foundation to buy the Annie Lytle School appeared to be the perfect opportunity to repeat a preservation triumph in Jacksonville. Instead it has resulted in more than a quarter-century of disappointment and, in recent years, criticism. But the foundation's chairman says he remains optimistic the building will be preserved.

What the foundation originally intended was to convert Annie Lytle, originally known as Public School Number Four, into apartments for seniors. That's what the foundation had successfully done with downtown's old Duval High School, which it purchased in 1977. But tax laws changed, grant money dried up and the apartment conversion plan for Annie Lytle, a public school from 1917 to 1960, fell through.

Other plans followed: a center for nonprofit agencies, a condominium conversion, a storage facility, artists' lofts and most recently a retirement facility. The city's Historic Preservation Commission granted the building landmark status in 2000.

Two years ago, with the consent of Doug Milne, who chairs the Ida M. Stevens Foundation's board, and against the recommendation of the Historic Preservation Commission, a developer sought permission to dismantle it. That request was approved by the City Council's Land Use and Zoning Committee. But amid the outcry that followed, including a letter from the Southern Regional Office of the National Trust for Historic Preservation to Mayor John Peyton and council President Kevin Hyde, the City Development Co. did not pursue the demolition request before the full City Council.

Milne said he actually agreed with most of the arguments made in the letter by John B. Hildreth of the National Trust to protect the neo-classical building. The one statement by Hildreth he disputed was that the old school's "prominent location along I-95" would make it a "highly visible" symbol of Jacksonville's commitment to historic preservation.

The school used to be highly visible to drivers crossing the Fuller Warren Bridge, sitting on a hill looking across I-95 toward Riverside Park. That changed when the bridge was replaced. Today, the school faces under the bridge and lies in the shadow of a still-incomplete flyover.

City Development Co. still has a contract to develop the property, and the current plan is to renovate the old building as part of a larger structure, company official Lynn Fournier said. She said The Renaissance Group, which redeveloped the Gateway Town Center, is now a partner in the plan to build a 55-and-up residential facility.

Jerry Spinks, president of the Jacksonville Historical Society, who is familiar with their plans, said, "I think there's a good future for Annie Lytle." But on local Web sites where preservation issues are debated, including MetroJacksonville.com and JaxOutLoud.com, Milne and the foundation are sometimes accused of "demolition by neglect" - allowing the building to deteriorate to the point that it can't be preserved.

Tim Kinnear, a print technician who has made a personal cause out of Annie Lytle, launched a thread in December on JaxOutLoud.com, decrying the condition of the school. "This very beautiful, deteriorating piece of architecture has fallen victim to owners who do have the means to fix it up at least to a marketable state, but choose to spend thousands and thousands of dollars ... to board it up, only for vandals to break into it yet again and further destruct it," he wrote.

That was mild compared with some comments that followed, which frustrates Milne. "It hasn't been much fun to endure these barbs," he said. In particular, he said claims that the building's physical condition has significantly deteriorated under the foundation's ownership aren't accurate. The roof over the school's auditorium has collapsed, but Milne has School Board reports from the 1960s and '70s showing that the roof needed replacement then.

Because it was constructed out of concrete and brick, the building remains structurally sound, Milne said. Because water damage is not an issue, he said there is no reason to pay to replace the roof until an overall renovation is undertaken. A bigger problem for the building, he said, has been the ongoing vandalism, which has included cutting through chain-link fences, destroying newly installed lighting systems and even ripping down steel doors secured with chains.

Despite it all, Milne said he believes the current developer has a plan that will finally make the old building viable. "I'm optimistic," he said. "Qualified by I've been optimistic before."
http://www.jacksonville.com/tu-online/stories/021908/met_248312178.shtml

spidey
02-19-2008, 07:07 AM
Nice article on Annie Lytle...too bad it centers around its abandonment and disrepair. Milne and his folks need to get moving on their restoration of the building now....not just make plans. Until work begins, vandalism and destruction will most likely continue. I hope to soon read a TU article on the completion of the restoration of this historic building.

Jimmy
02-19-2008, 07:42 AM
I agree that is an outstanding article. Anytime the public gets a piece of this story it makes me a little more hopeful that Annie can be saved.

This article came about through timkin's hard work and determination. Good job, Tim!

rpschutt
02-19-2008, 09:40 AM
Timkin does deserve a lot of credit for continuing to fight for this project. And, of course, we always love to see a plug for JaxOutLoud...

Jimmy
02-19-2008, 10:05 AM
I'm still unconvinced by the developer's intended use. I can't for the life of me imagine anyone wanting to live under a flyover ramp, even (or maybe especially) seniors. I'd kill to work in that building, however. Office condo makes more sense to me than residential condo. If it goes that way.

Jimmy
02-19-2008, 12:42 PM
Some other media is available to go along with the TU's reporting.

A WJCT story from over a year ago: http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=695867707142986934&hl=en

And Tim Kinnear's documentary footage: http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-7622017957753604236&hl=en

Diane Melendez
02-19-2008, 03:07 PM
Great job Mr. Patton and great job Timkin. The answers given by Mr. Milne came across as insincere and seem to be nothing more than more of the same "Grand Plans"!. More talk about what the plans are, make it sound good, explain the fact that your have ignored the structure and that absence of interest has caused it to deteriorate more and more over time. Yada, yada, yada. This building has been in limbo for 25 doggone years. Come on Mr. Milne, less lip service and more action. This stately historic structure deserves better. Why in the world did the foundation purchase the building just to let it flounder for years and years? There is no reason that you cannot get out there and clean up the lot and building and take some action to protect what is still there. For heavens sake, do something and make it positive!:mad:

Timkin
02-19-2008, 03:20 PM
I hope im allowed into the building if it is restored.. I talked with Joel Mc Eachen today and inquired about seeing the renderings of the Facility.. IF I understood him correctly, the Plan is to leave the existing building intact and Add on to the back of it. I am particularly curious as to whether the Auditorium will be spared.... If I can get copies of these prints, I will..

If this building is spared, I will be greatly relieved, and see this as a hopeful sign of Jacksonville taking a strong look at and preserving what remains of its past Architecture.

I never was looking to be a hero. If the Foundation, the Developers, and the City manage a way to see this come to reality, in my opinion, THEY are the heros!

Timkin
02-19-2008, 03:22 PM
Great job Mr. Patton and great job Timkin. The answers given by Mr. Milne came across as insincere and seem to be nothing more than more of the same "Grand Plans"!. More talk about what the plans are, make it sound good, explain the fact that your have ignored the structure and that absence of interest has caused it to deteriorate more and more over time. Yada, yada, yada. This building has been in limbo for 25 doggone years. Come on Mr. Milne, less lip service and more action. This stately historic structure deserves better. Why in the world did the foundation purchase the building just to let it flounder for years and years? There is no reason that you cannot get out there and clean up the lot and building and take some action to protect what is still there. For heavens sake, do something and make it positive!:mad:



My offer STANDS for all time to participate in a cleanup effort of the premises. I so bad want to go around this building and repaint all the stonework and get rid of all the overgrowth , ferns , etc. that alone would so reduce the blightedness. Im sure I could get others to help.

Diane Melendez
02-19-2008, 03:25 PM
You Timkin are a very good and caring person. Milne and those who own the building need to take responsibility for keeping it intact. They have failed miserably. I would hope the door would always be open to you in this building. You are more connected to this building and it's future than anyone I have heard of, including the current owners. Rock on Timkin!:yahoo!:

jbm32206
02-19-2008, 03:26 PM
I'll pitch in...so if you want to organize a day to go out...let me know!

Jimmy
02-19-2008, 03:27 PM
That's one of the things I love about this site: we're a group of doers and actors. Not just talkers. :)

Though we're good talkers, too.

Diane Melendez
02-19-2008, 03:57 PM
Exactly Jimmy.

My hope is that those who are in control of the building do finally take action. If they do have involvement with the people that managed to get Gateway back up and running, this may finally work its way out. It is my sincere hope that it does.

Timkin
02-19-2008, 04:56 PM
I would hope they would call the Retirement facility "Lytle Place" per the 2000 attempt on it as condos. This would give tribute to Annie Lytle , the former principal of the School, whos efforts and works were so honorable the School was renamed after her. I would love to see some portion of the old School House, perhaps even one classroom put back to origonal. pipe dream I know, but certainly fitting for a School that richly deserves another life. :)

AND I hope forever the front Capital will remain with Public School Number Four inscribed on its Mantle Stone . It is only fitting. :)

Diane Melendez
02-19-2008, 04:59 PM
The front would have to stay the same Timkin. The building has been named a "Landmark" structure.

Ernest Street
02-19-2008, 10:48 PM
Great work Tim!! What surrounding property would have to be bought to put this Parking code right? There are houses across the street on Peninsular place..and a couple of long operating business's nearby.

Timkin
02-19-2008, 11:10 PM
There are those, the two houses and property on College St, North of Annie Lytle, and if extra property on the back of the School Property had to be acquired , that would involve removal of the CC Dickson Company Building and The Automotive Repair Facility adjacent to and directly behind the PS 4 Property.

jbm32206
02-20-2008, 04:36 PM
There's more talk about saving this structure on the SPAR forum, in fact, there's even a link to our discussions about it...
http://sparcouncil.org/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=15&t=2627

Ernest Street
02-20-2008, 08:23 PM
Timkin and I have PM'd about this subject. It is quite obvious from the stories and local 5-Points/Riverside chatter who the "Transients" and "Vandals" are. Do skinny little malnourished crackheads climb several stories up..rip Steel doors and chains off and rampage on the roof?..NO..It's our LOCAL YOUTH! My younger Brother actually had a conversation with some proud students that even had their own personal Spelunking Headlights..and were going there that night...:hissy fit: The Local Parents need to be enlightened to this.This has been a Tradition/Right of passage since the '80's with scores of Kids..now young adults to "Visit the Haunted School". and has to stop. What is continually referred to as "Vandalism" is actually continual "Breaking and Entering" and "Trespassing". I will do a search soon to see who if anybody has been caught trespassing there.This Part of the Annie Struggle bothers me greatly as a Watchdog.I'm Tired of this Behavior written off as "Oh..It's just run down Brooklyn Crackheads" If I didn't dis-trust JSO, I would visit every few Hours on Weekend nights and Shine a Q-beam spotlight inside.At least some kid might get the message.

jbm32206
02-20-2008, 08:34 PM
The sad part, aside from the fact they these young morons have destroyed the place....the parents in general, don't give a damn...and I would be surprised if JSO has actually gone in there to catch anyone.

Timkin
02-21-2008, 12:44 AM
I would not know. I think I do know of a way to keep them OUT OF the building and it is safe. If Mr Milne would allow it. One thing is for sure.. LIGHTING is essential to deterring People from the building. I know Security is probably expensive.. but 90 days continuously of that would help get the message through.

Heres the thing.. Theres really nothing left to destroy in the structure. No fixtures, no wiring no plumbing.. Its all destroyed. other than grafitting theres no glass to break , nothing. its all destroyed.. In any event, the building would have to be gutted, perhaps even if it was in good condition , to meet modern code, for rewiring , plumbing, HVAC , etc.. So the grafitti and damage will all be torn away anyhow.

A massive cleanup and removal of the Haunted look... overgrowth , vines, trees , etc, needs to be done.. this curtails people lurking around. The look alone , lends directly to the wisetale of it being a "haunted building":crazy:

I sincerely hope this revival of the project finally brings it the new life it deserves.

Ernest Street
02-21-2008, 07:53 AM
My Chainsaw and Shovel stand ready if we are ever allowed to spruce up!

James
02-25-2008, 10:29 AM
hey, I'm new to the site and conversation, but I'd love to be involved in a clean up day, I have to be careful driving over the bridge, I drift off into what that school used to be...:Frown:

Timkin
05-14-2008, 09:06 PM
The Cleanup Effort happens usually every Saturday Morning. If you come to the front of the School and see no one, try going down Chelsea.. Most likely for the next few weeks we will be clearing the lawn in the back.


Thanks again for the efforts and interest. :)

Timkin
06-08-2008, 09:38 PM
The effort continues....

For about 3 months, various neighbors and like-minded good people have helped to spuce up. In that time , we have cleared three sides of the building of overgrowth and vines, the fencelines of Chelsea and College cleaned up and mowed. Most of the Schools yard ,mowed. the removal of dead and overgrown trees to bring the entire building into visibility. We continue to clear the back yard which is by far the most neglected area of the property. We have cleared, pretty much , the north Courtyard and the building of growth. Cleaned all steps off with exception of the Auditorium. The Northwest side of the School is being brought back into visibility with the removal of clusters of basicly, weed trees that not only obscured the School, but overgrew to the point that you couldnt get around to the front from that side. Thats all cleaned up. To many that pass by it everyday, No real difference can be seen (except the incessant, relentless grafitti and vandalism.) But the neighbors are noticing , and some are following suit. Positive changes are coming to PS# 4 Im confident and optimistic of that. I continue to hope that interest to save this Landmark will grow and continue to move forward, and that a reuse, whatever that is identified as, will be met.

It has been a privledge, indeed a challenge, and a fulfillment to see this through. It is my belief that we will see this place shine like a new penny one day.

Timkin
06-09-2008, 04:57 PM
Next Saturday at 9 am ... :) we continue forward :)