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View Full Version : So, How is the Planning Department doing post Thoburn


Diane Melendez
08-08-2007, 02:30 PM
:No:You all remember the big "to do" when the Mayor and City Council waived the rules to hire an untrained Planning director who is "smart as a whip". How is he doing? This email gives one mans views:


From: HMea1998@aol.com [HMea1998@aol.com] (https://webmail.coj.net/public/Public%20Records/Brad%20Thoburn%27s%20Public%20Records/Planning%20Staff%20Duped%20Commission%20Re%202007-398166671.EML/?cmd=editrecipient&Index=-1) Sent: Fri 7/27/2007 12:21 PM To: GEdwards@Edwardseng.com (https://webmail.coj.net/public/Public%20Records/Brad%20Thoburn%27s%20Public%20Records/Planning%20Staff%20Duped%20Commission%20Re%202007-398166671.EML/?cmd=editrecipient&Index=0)
Cc: Peyton, John (https://webmail.coj.net/public/Public%20Records/Brad%20Thoburn%27s%20Public%20Records/Planning%20Staff%20Duped%20Commission%20Re%202007-398166671.EML/?cmd=editrecipient&Index=1); Davis, Daniel (https://webmail.coj.net/public/Public%20Records/Brad%20Thoburn%27s%20Public%20Records/Planning%20Staff%20Duped%20Commission%20Re%202007-398166671.EML/?cmd=editrecipient&Index=2); Mosley, Alan (https://webmail.coj.net/public/Public%20Records/Brad%20Thoburn%27s%20Public%20Records/Planning%20Staff%20Duped%20Commission%20Re%202007-398166671.EML/?cmd=editrecipient&Index=3); Thoburn, Brad (https://webmail.coj.net/public/Public%20Records/Brad%20Thoburn%27s%20Public%20Records/Planning%20Staff%20Duped%20Commission%20Re%202007-398166671.EML/?cmd=editrecipient&Index=4); Crofts, John (https://webmail.coj.net/public/Public%20Records/Brad%20Thoburn%27s%20Public%20Records/Planning%20Staff%20Duped%20Commission%20Re%202007-398166671.EML/?cmd=editrecipient&Index=5); Eller, Shannon (https://webmail.coj.net/public/Public%20Records/Brad%20Thoburn%27s%20Public%20Records/Planning%20Staff%20Duped%20Commission%20Re%202007-398166671.EML/?cmd=editrecipient&Index=6)
Subject: Planning Staff Duped Commission Re 2007-682 Attachments:
View As Web Page (https://webmail.coj.net/public/Public%20Records/Brad%20Thoburn%27s%20Public%20Records/Planning%20Staff%20Duped%20Commission%20Re%202007-398166671.EML/#) Gray: First, let me express my appreciation to you and the other Commissioners who give of their time in the interest of a Public Purpose. Aside from one's family and one's pocketbook, intertwined with one's property, there are few things that can matter more than having a person's use of his/her land unjustly impinged. That happened last evening with regard to subject rezoning application. Given the system upon which the Commission should be able to rely for competency, credibility, and veracity, the Staff of JPD:

1. Incompetently processed our application; and,

2. Categorically lied as to how the staff was going to right their incompetent processing through amending the Agenda with Ms. Eller in the G.C.'s Office; and,

3. Prepared and submitted to you and to my client a written Staff Report that
contains gross factual errors; and,

4. As a part of the written Staff Report, the staff attached an incomplete excerpted
section from the zoning map and then testified in defense of same when it did not
cover the reach for legal notification nor the nearby areas as allowed for consideration in 656.125; and,

5. Failed to advise the Commission that neither the Greater Arlington Civic Council nor the CPAC nor any neighboring property owners entered any objection to the rezoning; and,

6. Maliciously, contradictorily, and incompetently lied to the Commission that the small property could be used for uses and purposes that its small size will not accommodate nor for which permits can be obtained; and,

7. The record will show that Sean Kelly, toward the end of his defensively surreptitious comments stated that the Report did not say that the staff had indicated the rezoning to comply with the Comprehensive Plan. In its item #1 finding on Page 2, just as I testified, the Staff Report indicates "YES" to the Code required question of the rezoning's consistency with the 2010 Comp Plan; and,

8. Kelly continued incompetently stating, in connection with a Commissioner's question as to what were some of the feared uses, that my client could develop up to 5 dwelling units on the .19 acre parcel. As the zoning administrator with whom I personally worked on such issues, Kelly, who has been employed in the JPD for a number of years, knew that in RMD-E zoning, allowing up to 20 units per lot, as one of only three classes allowed in RPI Land Use and as applicable to subject property under CRO, the first two dwelling units would require 6,000 square feet of land area each and 2,100 square feet of land area each for the next two dwelling units. At the same time, under CRO as under CO, lot coverage is restricted to 35% for all buildings. Minimum setbacks for one principal structure on the lot are: Front 20 feet; Side yards 20 feet and rear yards 20 feet. My client's property is essentially 75 feet wide by 100 feet in depth or slightly over 7,500 sq. feet. Height limitation is 35 feet. Likewise, Kelly knew that 2 parking spaces are required for each residential unit. He also knew, as had been repeatedly stated by him and Engmann, as a defense for their malevolent recommendation for "DENIAL", that my client's lot consisted of just over 7,500 square feet. So, a competent analysis and non-prejudicial presentation to the Commission would have recognized these Codified Limitations along with the Limitations imposed for stormwater and other regulatory impositions beyond the JPD. Or, is JPD supposed to be ignorant of limitations outside the walls of Florida Theater?? Chapter 163, F.S. provides for recognition of other limitations by other agencies; and,

11. After mishandling the timely processing and agendizing of subject application, my complaint to Mr. Crofts resulted in his indicating that he would contact Ms. Eller in the G.C.'s Office with a request to Amend the Agenda. This occurred on 10 May 2007 after we submitted on 1 May 2007. Mr. Crofts also requested that we re-submit our Application that day to Engmann with a check in the Amount of $1,582.00. We exactly complied to the extent of my personally observing such documents being placed on Engmann's desk. Unfortunately, Mr. Crofts was out of town and obviously could not oversee the intentions he expressed to my office via voice mail as still recorded. Simultaneously, Mr. Crofts and I had out of town deaths in our families. Mr. Crofts and I went out of town undoubtedly believing that Engmann, Kelly or other responsible staffer was submitting a request to Ms. Eller to amend the Council Agenda for more timely consideration than has been the case. Upon Mr. Crofts' and my return, I contacted him and was told that Ms. Eller would not accept an amendment for the Agenda. Since, Ms. Eller has advised me that no such amendment was requested in writing or verbally. If Mr. Crofts was led by his staff to believe the amendment request was filed and rejected, then, he was lied to as the staff was so proficient at doing last evening.

9. The record will show that Kelly and Engmann, in particular, with Avery bowing out of their diatribe, indicated that my client would engage in sales and a littany of unspecified activities, some of which are not permitted in CRO. CRO in Section 656.311.III(b) outlines three specifically prohibited activities, one being "No retail sales"; and,

10. Because of the egoistic and malicious intent of the Staff, they failed to acknowledge that in the Land Use Category of RPI only three primary classes of zoning (CO, CRO, and RMD-E) are allowed.

11. While I understand that Engmann is leaving the JPD and will no longer be subject to proper administrative sanctions, on or about 17 May 2007, my client visited Mr. Engmann who allegedly told my client that the reason the Application had not been agendized in accord with its timely submittal was because I made a mistake in addressing it to Mr. Crofts. Moreover, Engmann allegedly told my client, who confronted me, that Crofts and I are personal acquaintances and friends and that the staff felt that the agenda amendment request would have been a "personal favor" to me by Mr. Crofts. I also know everyone to whom this is addressed except Mr. Thoburn. In more than one conversation with Mr. Crofts since by telephone, I asked why my addressing the Application to him would have been a mistake?? My question was rhetorical since I knew that anyone at any time for any reason should be able to address any matter to the Director or Deputy Director for their discretionary assignment to any staff person. Likewise, I know that agenda amendment requests are routinely done, not just for me. I have personally known for sometime, from one day to the next, staff assignments in JPD appear to have been unpredictable. Neither is there a specially designated file basket or drop box for rezoning applications in the reception area of JPD. On the other hand, there is no better receptionist in the City than at JPD's front desk as is the Director's Secretary.

12. When the JPD Staff provides the Commission with various, sundry, inconsistent, and incompetent interpretations of the Code; provides incompetently prepared and misconstrued reports; and, maliciously lies in hearing forum in an effort to protect their mistaken actions; and, to ultimately blow enough smoke on the Commission for it to favor their actions, they perpetuate arbitrariness and capriciousness, and disdain for the desired professionalism and integrity of the JPD. Particularly, they do a disservice and insult to the Commission and the Public Interest in perpetrating untruths and misconstructions of fact in order to influence the Commission's voting objectively and justly.

13. Am I disappointed in the DENIAL vote on subject application? Yes, for my young client and his wife who are trying to better the property they bought and are remodeling on Merrill Road for a family cosmetology shop. There are cosmetology shops from one end of Merrill Road to the other, currently all but one for Anglo Americans. Mr. & Mrs. Gipson provide services primarily for African American clientele in rented space on St. Johns Bluff Road. Their little building on Merrill Road cannot accommodate more than 5 chairs although they only planned to operate 3 chairs with auxiliary hair dryer stations. This was known to Messrs. Crofts and Avery as attested to by meeting in their building with Councilman Yarborough. Yet, in their testimony to the Commission last evening, Messrs. Kelly and Engmann created an impression that the Gipsons would have a profuse number of chairs. Again, Kelly, in particular knew better since the approved Site Plan only allows for 4 parking spaces, one of which is for handicapped. Again, the JPD Staff testimony and Report was, in my opinion and experience from 45 years of professional practice, malicious, incompetent, and malevolent.

14. As you may notice, I am sending this communique as a complaint to the Mayor, the President of the City Council, the JPD leadership, and to Ms. Eller since I previously discussed the matter with her.

Appreciation to you and the other Commissioners for taking your time and talents for such indulgence. I commend each and all of you. Please disseminate this e-mail to your fellow Commissioners or provide me with their addresses so I may do so.

Best regards,


Hilton T. Meadows, RLA0000339

Diane Melendez
08-08-2007, 02:38 PM
Looks like Planning has lost another member. Wonder why?


From: Jackson, Ida (https://webmail.coj.net/public/Public%20Records/Brad%20Thoburn%27s%20Public%20Records/FW:%20Goodbye.EML/?cmd=editrecipient&Index=-1) Sent: Fri 7/27/2007 4:42 PM To: JPD0 (https://webmail.coj.net/public/Public%20Records/Brad%20Thoburn%27s%20Public%20Records/FW:%20Goodbye.EML/?cmd=editrecipient&Index=0)
Cc: Subject: FW: Goodbye Attachments:
View As Web Page (https://webmail.coj.net/public/Public%20Records/Brad%20Thoburn%27s%20Public%20Records/FW:%20Goodbye.EML/#)

Subject: Goodbye
Thank you all for the wonderful send off party, it was much more than I expected. It was really great working with all of you and I felt like I grew up so much working here and you were like family… and still are. It was great being part of the team and I believe what we do here is important. So I will see you around the holidays and I wish everyone the best of luck.
Sincerely,
Eric P. Engmann
Planner II
City of Jacksonville
Planning and Development Department
128 E. Forsyth Street, Suite 700
Jacksonville, Florida 32202
904-630-2199

jbm32206
08-08-2007, 02:55 PM
That's one angry, and sounds like it's more than justifiably so, person...it also sounds like his client got screwed!

Makes one wonder why so many are jumping ship...but like you said, at least there was cake!

Diane Melendez
09-23-2007, 12:29 AM
You may remember this little saga from an earlier post. It has to do with an employee that was "cut" LOL for the budget. In Peyton terms that means, she was moved from one office to make it look like the city is cutting costs, but behind the scenes, she is being moved around like a pawn on a chessboard, even being proposed for a positions she is no way qualified for. Here is the latest exchange:


From: Saltsgiver, Susan (http:///) Sent: Thu 9/13/2007 8:48 AM To: Thoburn, Brad (http:///) Cc:
Subject: RE: Shorty Robbins Attachments:

If John can help me fill out this PQ, let me know and I 'll work with him. Thanks very much.
Susan Saltsgiver
Planning Business Manager
Planning and Development Department
(904) 630-7395
(904) 630-1257 Fax
susans@coj.net

_____________________________________________
From: Thoburn, Brad
Sent: Thursday, September 13, 2007 8:47 AM
To: Saltsgiver, Susan
Subject: RE: Shorty Robbins
There has been no decision on who may be Community Planning Chief. That is for discussion between myself and the Mayor's office. John Crofts and I need to discuss this. Thanks, Brad

_____________________________________________
From: Saltsgiver, Susan
Sent: Thursday, September 13, 2007 8:37 AM
To: Thoburn, Brad
Subject: Shorty Robbins
We need to develop a PQ for her based on her supervision of the Historic Preservation section. Who can fill out this PQ based on what they do down there? Has Bill been informed he may be the Community Planning Chief? If so, he could do this. I can fill out parts of the PQ, but not what work is accomplished.
Shorty will be filling out a PQ based on what she does for management of Park Development. Then HR will marry the two PQ's and set an appropriate salary level and job class for her. Please advise who can help me on Historic Preservation portion of PQ. Thanks.
Susan Saltsgiver
Planning Business Manager
Planning and Development Department
(904) 630-7395
(904) 630-1257 Fax


And here is the previous exchange. Gotta love it!

[quote]
Shorty Robbins is currently chief of a division in the Parks and Recreation Department. That division is being moved to be a part of the Community Planning Division of the Planning Department. (You have to have read the bill carefully to have figured that out. Anyway.....

Here is Shorty's current salary according to the TU database:


Last Name Robbins First Name Robin Department Parks, Recreation and Entertainment Job Title 04377.CHIEF OF PARK DEVELOPMENT Salary Basis Salaried Annual Salary $70,000 Quote:
(note to me, include for you) Here are E-mails between Susan Saltsgiver and Brad Thoburn and others. Note that originally Shorty was in their budget as a senior planner making $68,000 (see bolded language below) until their was a snag in the plans.......ie, she was not bringing a position with her. Read the E-mails below carefully, Diane, there's alot of smoke and mirrors going on here....plus there's a few tidbits of other interesting information...like how they are making changes in personnel before the reorg is approved by City Council which if I recall correctly really irked Jack Webb at a previous City Council meeting.


Quote:
///////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
From: Saltsgiver, Susan (http:///) Sent: Fri 8/24/2007 2:55 PM To: Thoburn, Brad (http:///) Cc:
Subject: FW: Chief of Park Planning Attachments:


Brad, I am investigating why Parks Planning is only transferring 3 positions to us, but giving us 4 people. The 3 positions are for the Parks Planners. The 4 th person is Shorty Robbins who was the Division Chief. They have eliminated her job and she is apparently (at this time, at least) not bringing a position over with her. I have been working all morning trying to find out what happened here. It appears it occurred in Budget. They have only reconciled 3 positions coming to us from Parks. Right now they have Shorty showing up in one of our vacant Senior Planner positions, which means you will not be able to hire one of our two senior planners we were planning on hiring, unless and until they give us a new civil service position for Shorty. I told everyone you had already agreed to take two riffs and convert two planner positions, but you had not agreed to give up three. Shorty does not qualify as a Senior Planner, so she would have to come over as something else, like a Parks Planner Supervisor, probably at a significant drop in salary. They have her blocked in at $68,000 which would throw our entire pay equity system out of whack again. Don Norris is working to inform her there would have to be a drop in salary to come over here, and Budget and HR are working to hopefully give us another position that she can slide into.

This is all based on the fact you want her to come over here, which is a question Becky Salter is now asking. ??

Susan SaltsgiverPlanning Business Manager Planning and Development Department(904) 630-7395(904) 630-1257 Fax susans@coj.net
From: Norris, Donald
Sent: Friday, August 24, 2007 2:47 PM
To: Saltsgiver, Susan
Subject: FW: Chief of Park Planning

FYI

From: Salter, Rebecca
Sent: Friday, August 24, 2007 2:10 PM
To: Preeschl, Carmen; Norris, Donald; Poppell, Chad
Cc: Cullen, Archie
Subject: RE: Chief of Park Planning

I was speaking with Kelley Boree on another matter, and it is her understanding that Shorty will be going to Brad Thoburn's shop. She had no information as to what job Shorty is to fill…. The Administration has asked us to try not to have effective dates prior to 10/1 for jobs related to the reorg. If Brad is planning on using Shorty, we definitely need to work with them to assure there is a position she can legally move into. If I can help or we need to do something before 10/1, let me know.

Becky
Rebecca Salter, SPHRDirector of Human Resources City of Jacksonville117 W. Duval Street, Suite 100Jacksonville, FL 32202 (904) 630-7528
Please note that e-mail correspondence to and from city officials or employees is subject to disclosure under Florida's public records law.
From: Preeschl, Carmen
Sent: Friday, August 24, 2007 9:27 AM
To: Norris, Donald; Poppell, Chad
Cc: Cullen, Archie; Salter, Rebecca
Subject: RE: Chief of Park Planning

Hi Donald,

Per Claire Stine's budget copy, Shorty is shown on next year's budget as a B0323, City Planner Supervisor, PG 1616. Of course, this is not a possibility as she is not eligible to compete for a promotional examination. I recommend requesting a proposed organization chart or meeting with your customer to identify the unit, staff #, etc. to determine if or what we can do assist placement for Shorty. We may want to consider hiring her into a vacant position within PREC prior to October 1, so she can transfer over as a civil service employee. However, Becky does not support changes prior to the reorganization approval.

Thanks!

From: Norris, Donald
Sent: Friday, August 24, 2007 8:04 AM
To: Poppell, Chad; Preeschl, Carmen
Subject: Chief of Park Planning
Importance: High

Chad/Carmen,

I received a frantic phone call from Susan Saltsgiver this morning regarding Shorty Robbins. Do either of you know what the game plan is for him in the reorganization? Susan indicated that PD is aware they are gaining the currently filled Park Planners (3), but discovered yesterday that Shorty is now showing in a Senior Planner position. In short, excuse the pun; he apparently did not bring a position with him.

She is also checking with the appropriate budget analysts.

Don

lindab
09-23-2007, 08:07 AM
This is very alarming to me on many levels. What is going to happen to our Parks Department? Jacksonville has very rightly been proud of its parks and most of them have heavy usage by the public.

Then our historic planning division. What is going to happen here when we are seeing historic buildings go down in the onslaught of the Better Jax plan, JEDC, FDOT, JTA, etc ? How can it be better to give parks people oversight on historic too?

Finally, how the heck can this save us money? The only answer to that is that the mayor intends to move everyone and sell the Armory to private interests.

jbm32206
09-23-2007, 08:26 AM
It isn't going to make anything better, it's not intended to. This is Peyton and his administration shuffling people around, to make it appear that he's made cuts in the budget, when he hasn't...in fact, he's added people! He's just relying upon his friends in city council to pass the budget, along with the fees... :cursing:and to hell with the people of Jacksonville!

Charles Hunter
09-23-2007, 09:19 AM
Also, it gives him some breathing room with the over-friendly media (OFM) ... "Hey, things seem screwed up, but we are just 2 (3, 4, 5, 7) months into our reorganization ... you have to give it time..."
Then, about the time even the OFM begin to grow suspicious, we can have another re-org!:rolleyes:

Diane Melendez
09-23-2007, 01:59 PM
Let us not forget that this is.....PEYTON'S DAMN 8TH RE-ORANIZATION!!:brickwall::brickwall::brickwall:

Pathetic, pathetic, pathetic and let me add shameful !!!!:blush:

spidey
09-23-2007, 02:07 PM
Maybe that's how he keeps all the people working for him saying "Yes, Master." If you reorganize all the time, you can keep people worried about keeping their jobs, instead of speaking up and speaking out.

spidey
02-10-2008, 09:18 PM
Under the category of the more things change....the more they stay the same...

Ms. Robbins is up for an appointed position again....this time as Chief of the Recreation and Community Programming Division in the Recreation and Community Services Dept.
http://citycirc.coj.net/coj/COJBillList.asp?Bill=2008-0116

If you recall, Ms. Robbins was Chief of Park Development in Parks and Recreation Dept..... http://citycirc.coj.net/coj/COJBillList.asp?Bill=2006-1026 (http://citycirc.coj.net/coj/COJBillList.asp?Bill=2006-1026)

...until Peyton's reorg when she was moved to the Planning Department and was looking for a place to land and she ended up serving as the Manager of the Parks and Historic Preservation Section (according to her resume attached to the most recent legislation).

rpschutt
06-30-2008, 10:42 AM
I found this interesting:

Attorney Bruce Fletcher got an interesting phone call Thursday morning. The former chair of the Planning Commission was notified he was being recalled for that day’s commission meeting because several current members expected to be absent and that meant no quorum for the meeting. Former Planning Department Director Mike Saylor got a similar call. Two hours later, the phone rang again and Fletcher was informed the Office of General Counsel had decided he could not serve temporarily without his approval as an alternative commissioner by the mayor and the City Council. Ultimately, the crisis was averted as enough commissioners attended and the meeting was held as scheduled.

http://www.jaxdailyrecord.com/citynotes.php

MindingEye
06-30-2008, 11:08 AM
It is always easier to get someone to be absent if they can't be persuaded to vote your way!


I found this interesting:


Quote:
Attorney Bruce Fletcher got an interesting phone call Thursday morning. The former chair of the Planning Commission was notified he was being recalled for that day’s commission meeting because several current members expected to be absent and that meant no quorum for the meeting. Former Planning Department Director Mike Saylor got a similar call. Two hours later, the phone rang again and Fletcher was informed the Office of General Counsel had decided he could not serve temporarily without his approval as an alternative commissioner by the mayor and the City Council. Ultimately, the crisis was averted as enough commissioners attended and the meeting was held as scheduled.

http://www.jaxdailyrecord.com/citynotes.php

Saw that and there is a pre-quill as to how this is possible and what I think the changes were done for. Last year they basically told the commission about the ordinance.

At first Planning Commission thought it was to be discussed and came to the conclusion the power to replace one of the members, excuse me for "fill in for an absence” was not needed. There had not been a lack of a quorum in memory.

It was embarrassing for all to be told it was a done deal.

I wonder what was discussed and voted on that day? It is always easier to get someone to be absent if they can't be persuaded to vote your way!

What a City!

mtraininjax
06-30-2008, 11:24 PM
First of all, I am friends with Brad and Sean. While I think highly of some of the people in Planning, I am sure there are a few that could be shown the "private side of planning" and moved into the private sector. What happened to that guy, is a process issue. It is bigger than 1 or 2 people. When I changed the zoning of a house from SFR to Duplex, I had to go to 3 meetings, where no one contested the change, but it still took 3 months of time. You think I was happy with the "process"? I think people who serve publicly enjoy the process. If you ever want to lose your mind, I can think of no where better than in public service. The process in our fair city stinks!

Brad has mentioned to me on more than 1 occassion that good people will leave the City for better pay in the private sector. Look at the SAO. Do you think Shorstein jokes that he will be the last to turn off the lights? He even said that the $40k starting salary leaves little to the people they work to death, after student loans, room and board. Would that be any different to a person who works in the planning department after they get their credentials?

Our city re-arranges the chairs on the Titanic more often than Kerry Stewart gets a promotion. I like Kerry and I like Ron Barton, but at times the JEDC just needs to be removed and thrown out. Let's save some money somewhere. What 60 jobs have we brought to town for 3.2 million in tax relief lately? Our fearless mayor only added 4 jobs to the new budget. Really, 4 new positions over 365 days? If you believe that, Misty Skipper will do what is right and turn down the Wiles position, NOT!

CS Foltz
07-01-2008, 06:25 AM
Susie....Misty......I will hit the panic button if someone named Barbie gets in the mix! That is an interesting idea....shutting down the JEDC....The Mayor says he is trying to cut the Budget....He might consider reviewing Deptartments that are not productive or possibly staff that is not needed......he could do a lot by speaking for himself rather than through a mouthpiece! Noooooo that will never happen!